Sue Miller, the agency’s former chief mole hunter, tells how a 15 year old spy debacle hangs over the Trump administration’s efforts to crack down on Chinese espionage
I rewrote the FBI Student Program circa 1987 and at that time, we argued, to no avail, that there should be some semblance of reciprocity with student exchanges. The few American students in China students were conducting diggings in Xian while the large number of Chinese students in the U.S. were studying at MIT! The Chinese government has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, R&D budget among the industrialized nations, in large part, because they've routinely stolen U.S. (and other western countries) technology. I recall, one of the first indications of the extent of thefts that were ongoing when universities noted a huge increase in copying paper in the immediate aftermath of the hundreds of Chinese students arriving in the U.S., students, by the way, were often times middle age, And a PRC student told me if students failed to send back reams of papers, etc., they stay in the U.S. would be cut short. I'm certainly no fan of this administration, but in this case, I have no issue with the action being taken.
When I was going to the University of Illinois at Chicago, we were led to understand that our fellow students from other countries were being recruited by the CIA to spy, because they were native speakers of their languages. That made a lot of sense to me.
Being half German, I knew that the Germans identified a lot of US spies by the way they used their silverware during WW1 and WW2. This is a story that maybe many German parents tell their children, don't use your silver the wrong way or you will appear to not be German. Although now-a-days, I see a lot of Germans who cannot handle their silverware "properly" either.
So, it is useful to send Americans abroad, and to recruit from foreign students in the US. But, from the story you are telling, Chinese students can be pressured to spy for their country. So, could they also be recruited to spy for the US?
What I have read, because I know that Chinese used to have the largest foreign student population in Germany and India was second, but now the two have switched places. So, I looked at how many immigrants there were to China. It seems like there are almost no real immigrants to China, so perhaps they cannot expect to send their people out to live elsewhere if there is no reciprocity in return. Of course, now all the people I know whose children are taking Chinese would prefer them to go to Taiwan to gain practice. Even that seems like a loaded option these days. Language fluency must be a big part of being a spy.
Ms. Weide, I can't speak for the recent past, nor for the Agency, but, without elaboration, I can state unequivocally that in the first several years of the PRC's presence, not a single PRC national was elicited to cooperate by a Chinese speaking agent, or even, an ethnic Chinese agent. It was years after the PRC showed up before an ethnic Chinese agent was successful in that regard, but his Chinese language ability was virtually nil. But remember, this was in the years after the Cultural Revolution and there was extreme mistrust of any and all by the Chinese people. They simply could not afford to take even a minimal chance that they were being set up and n their view, Chinese language ability was reason to be wary. The business of eliciting cooperation is a strange business and doesn't always fall under the accepted norm. How do you, for instance, explain that in the era of black revolutionaries, that the most successful agents that developed sources within their ranks, were southern white guys? You must remember, that the students came over alone, their families remained in China and few wanted to sever those family ties. And it was simply assumed that if a student was allowed to study abroad, that they would do all they could to help the Middle Kingdom. And they were successful. Indeed, the information was so overwhelming that the Chinese government couldn't handle the volume....noting, they were to send anything, there was no specific targeting of information. What isn't being mentioned are the traveling delegations from China......
When the U.S. sent delegations to China, they were escorted by PRC security personnel, with their itinerary's severely restricted. PRC delegations to the U.S. were largely not escorted and while they too, had itineraries, they weren't monitored to the degree that they were restrictive. The PRC's visitors were both resourceful and creative in their violating their scheduled visits. There are examples that I'm not in a position to indulge, even with the passage of time. As for the solicitation of sources from China, without elaboration (again) one of the more telling examples was when a PRC national, while flying into a large airport in the U.S., seeing all the lights, traffic, buildings, etc., that he knew he'd been lied to. This was not the picture that had been painted by the Party in the PRC. Sources have different motivations, some, perhaps most, are simply mercenary, others have a sense of revenge, etc. etc. But what is consistent is that the officer must sell him/herself. One of the best sources I ever handled was one that I spent a year dealing with, drinking innumerable cups of tea, coffee, etc., just chatting, not about the business, but anything of interest, sports, personalities, whatever. I believed that if I could keep him talking that eventually, he'd come around. But some of these sources are one agent sources, they refuse to be handed off for whatever reason.
I worked with Chinese students in Denton, Texas in the 80's. I was a science librarian and supervised student assistants. The USA is basically an open source. China has satellites and means. We gain much more by having international students. This carp from the President is stupid. The gains far outweigh the risk.
My start in intelligence was at CI school in Baltimore in 1965 and I did CI work in Vietnam with the First Infantry Division 66-67. I take counterintelligence very seriously. But making friends and educating the world's leaders of the future also is important.
I believe it but there must be a way to counter Chinese spies while also remaining free, open, and welcoming to people from around the world.
"Never forget to look over your shoulder" is wise advice.
How is the US going to recruit if they get rid of all Chinese from the US?
I rewrote the FBI Student Program circa 1987 and at that time, we argued, to no avail, that there should be some semblance of reciprocity with student exchanges. The few American students in China students were conducting diggings in Xian while the large number of Chinese students in the U.S. were studying at MIT! The Chinese government has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, R&D budget among the industrialized nations, in large part, because they've routinely stolen U.S. (and other western countries) technology. I recall, one of the first indications of the extent of thefts that were ongoing when universities noted a huge increase in copying paper in the immediate aftermath of the hundreds of Chinese students arriving in the U.S., students, by the way, were often times middle age, And a PRC student told me if students failed to send back reams of papers, etc., they stay in the U.S. would be cut short. I'm certainly no fan of this administration, but in this case, I have no issue with the action being taken.
When I was going to the University of Illinois at Chicago, we were led to understand that our fellow students from other countries were being recruited by the CIA to spy, because they were native speakers of their languages. That made a lot of sense to me.
Being half German, I knew that the Germans identified a lot of US spies by the way they used their silverware during WW1 and WW2. This is a story that maybe many German parents tell their children, don't use your silver the wrong way or you will appear to not be German. Although now-a-days, I see a lot of Germans who cannot handle their silverware "properly" either.
So, it is useful to send Americans abroad, and to recruit from foreign students in the US. But, from the story you are telling, Chinese students can be pressured to spy for their country. So, could they also be recruited to spy for the US?
What I have read, because I know that Chinese used to have the largest foreign student population in Germany and India was second, but now the two have switched places. So, I looked at how many immigrants there were to China. It seems like there are almost no real immigrants to China, so perhaps they cannot expect to send their people out to live elsewhere if there is no reciprocity in return. Of course, now all the people I know whose children are taking Chinese would prefer them to go to Taiwan to gain practice. Even that seems like a loaded option these days. Language fluency must be a big part of being a spy.
Ms. Weide, I can't speak for the recent past, nor for the Agency, but, without elaboration, I can state unequivocally that in the first several years of the PRC's presence, not a single PRC national was elicited to cooperate by a Chinese speaking agent, or even, an ethnic Chinese agent. It was years after the PRC showed up before an ethnic Chinese agent was successful in that regard, but his Chinese language ability was virtually nil. But remember, this was in the years after the Cultural Revolution and there was extreme mistrust of any and all by the Chinese people. They simply could not afford to take even a minimal chance that they were being set up and n their view, Chinese language ability was reason to be wary. The business of eliciting cooperation is a strange business and doesn't always fall under the accepted norm. How do you, for instance, explain that in the era of black revolutionaries, that the most successful agents that developed sources within their ranks, were southern white guys? You must remember, that the students came over alone, their families remained in China and few wanted to sever those family ties. And it was simply assumed that if a student was allowed to study abroad, that they would do all they could to help the Middle Kingdom. And they were successful. Indeed, the information was so overwhelming that the Chinese government couldn't handle the volume....noting, they were to send anything, there was no specific targeting of information. What isn't being mentioned are the traveling delegations from China......
What about the traveling delegations from China. What were they doing? Also, how was the US getting people to spy for them on China?
When the U.S. sent delegations to China, they were escorted by PRC security personnel, with their itinerary's severely restricted. PRC delegations to the U.S. were largely not escorted and while they too, had itineraries, they weren't monitored to the degree that they were restrictive. The PRC's visitors were both resourceful and creative in their violating their scheduled visits. There are examples that I'm not in a position to indulge, even with the passage of time. As for the solicitation of sources from China, without elaboration (again) one of the more telling examples was when a PRC national, while flying into a large airport in the U.S., seeing all the lights, traffic, buildings, etc., that he knew he'd been lied to. This was not the picture that had been painted by the Party in the PRC. Sources have different motivations, some, perhaps most, are simply mercenary, others have a sense of revenge, etc. etc. But what is consistent is that the officer must sell him/herself. One of the best sources I ever handled was one that I spent a year dealing with, drinking innumerable cups of tea, coffee, etc., just chatting, not about the business, but anything of interest, sports, personalities, whatever. I believed that if I could keep him talking that eventually, he'd come around. But some of these sources are one agent sources, they refuse to be handed off for whatever reason.
I worked with Chinese students in Denton, Texas in the 80's. I was a science librarian and supervised student assistants. The USA is basically an open source. China has satellites and means. We gain much more by having international students. This carp from the President is stupid. The gains far outweigh the risk.
My start in intelligence was at CI school in Baltimore in 1965 and I did CI work in Vietnam with the First Infantry Division 66-67. I take counterintelligence very seriously. But making friends and educating the world's leaders of the future also is important.