SpyTalk

SpyTalk

Share this post

SpyTalk
SpyTalk
Tracking the Insidious Creep of Spyware
Copy link
Facebook
Email
Notes
More

Tracking the Insidious Creep of Spyware

An interview with The Citizens Lab’s Ronald Deibert on 'Chasing Shadows,' his penetrating account of spyware scandals rocking governments around the world

Michael Isikoff's avatar
Michael Isikoff
Feb 02, 2025
∙ Paid
71

Share this post

SpyTalk
SpyTalk
Tracking the Insidious Creep of Spyware
Copy link
Facebook
Email
Notes
More
7
12
Share
Ronald Deibert, top sleuth and boss at The Citizens Lab

Edward Snowden and Ronald Deibert wouldn’t seem, on the surface, to have much in common.

Snowden, of course, is the notorious government contractor who leaked massive files of highly classified documents about NSA surveillance, fled to Russia and was widely denounced as a traitor at last week’s Senate Intelligence Committee hearing. 

Deibert, on the other hand, is a mild mannered Canadian academic who runs a Toronto-based cyber research group that, he hastens to emphasize, has “certainly” never disclosed any secret documents.

Yet, they have both played central roles in a running and often rancorous debate over government surveillance that has rattled spy agencies around the globe. Snowden, for better or worse, disclosed documents about NSA snooping that triggered a national debate about privacy and civil liberties. But the largely unheralded Deibert, through painstaking forensic investigations, has exposed abuses that are arguably far more sinister than anything Snowden revealed: In effect, he has uncovered a thriving industry of commercial spyware—developed by Israel’s super secret signals intelligence branch, Unit 8200, and sold to security services and law enforcement agencies around the world—that has been used to harass, suppress, and arrest political dissenters and rivals, triggering Watergate-like scandals in multiple countries.  

Keep reading with a 7-day free trial

Subscribe to SpyTalk to keep reading this post and get 7 days of free access to the full post archives.

Already a paid subscriber? Sign in
© 2025 Jeff Stein
Privacy ∙ Terms ∙ Collection notice
Start writingGet the app
Substack is the home for great culture

Share

Copy link
Facebook
Email
Notes
More